N23MZ Repair Update #2 – MzeroA Flight Training

, , 80 Comments


hey everyone Jason Schaffer here of m0a
comm alongside world-famous a and P mechanic Russel loving bringing you
another great – 3 Mike Zulu update I’d call it a great – 3 Mike zoo the update
yeah but what we have to share and you know at m0a were never one to hype a
video but this is a must watch because it concerns so much
safety-wise you’re gonna realize that the incident that happened in Appleton
with the tornado was really a blessing in disguise
yeah but let’s start with the positive stuff then we’ll get into we can call it
negative but it really saved lives oh yeah honest it doesn’t go stainless
as well let’s let’s start with with the beginning of course all new glass Russ
so kind of work us through this why all new glass anyways uh well you know the
we were getting some crazy and then we’re also you know the tint on it is
green so we we decided to go with the clear you know for videos and things
like that and plus it looks better so it’s getting painted anyway yeah it’s
gonna get painted and so yeah so we got new glass and if you can tell right
there you know we get a new glare shield and so you know it’s trying to get some
of the small things that we already wanted to get done yeah get it done it
just makes sense from that standpoint here so super let’s talk a little bit
about what we’re looking at here now this is the wing this by the way is the
damaged wing and this is where the blessing disguise happens yes what I’m
no EMP expert what are we seeing here well so you know that’s the cap right
off the where the nose behind the nose and so that’s the the reinforcement for
the for the nose the problem with this there you say I don’t mean to cut you
off when you say nose you’re talking to the leading edge deleting it yeah got
your Lea’s of the week yes and so what happens is because you
have the panels on the reinforcement and the skin pressure gets on top of each
other you can’t see this type of corrosion and so this is this is pitting
this is corrosion and so what’s happening is is that because the
moisture and we’re you know sea salt room yeah you know
they’re near the ocean the problem with this is is that that’s just sitting
there and so it’s just corroding it right and it looks like they’ve cleaned
this up a little bit too and yes they’re still you can’t get to the pits no
because it is a path you only allow like maybe ten percent right of taking metal
off of a certain area and so if you get go beyond that and then it’s just not
air worthy you gotta replace the whole thing so now this what we’re seen here
this is where remember in the original video this is where the rivets busted
yes right here and we are thinking oh it was from the impact
well the wing hit yes but in actuality it was corrosion yes it’s because it hit
and it buckled yes however those rivets probably were never busted if this
pitting of this corrosion those all those rivets were corroded out is that
safe to say it’s safe to say yes it is so that’s exactly where that happened
yes cuz when you look at it it looks like okay but maybe the you know the
rivets were no good or wasn’t put in correctly what-have-you but yeah this
was the way that this hit and it’s just there was a line of them and so we were
like well you know what’s going on of course once you open it up you see that
it there’s corrosion between you know three
or four different layers of metal to for the rivets to come out absolutely and
that should be a red flag but here is here’s the big thing and in all honesty
again not hyping anything this is truly who knows how long away from a possible
catastrophic failure yep we’re now looking at the wing root of all places
to have an issue right closest to the fuselage yep
what are what on earth is this rust are seeing hell I guess so this is called
inter granular corrosion and so basically it’s swelling and it’s also
like it’s eating it’s from the inside out wow it’s so it just sits there and
it just flakes and so that’s I mean you’re fine you don’t you can’t see that
through an inspection because it’s if you could tell sitting right on top of
the cat yes and so when I’m doing an inspection that open up the inspection
panels to get my light out I get my mirror and I’m looking and so
unfortunately this is something that’s you know that I’ve missed but it’s at
the same time it’s one of those things it’s hard to really see because it’s
only way that I’m gonna see that it so I take the skin off right so it’s just one
of those things that it’s an unfortunate but you got to really be diligent as far
as looking for things when you’re on the West Coast or East Coast
near an ocean because it’s this type of stuff is something that you know am P
all of us gonna miss so pictures again you’re I think you’re being too hard on
yourself you’re saying this is something you missed but I mean I disagree with
you honestly the skin I mean this is the this is the spark eventually right here
right I mean this is that croch through much more you literally have a
catastrophic failure yeah link Kubelik point they says it’s really no because
no that’s not rare weather we got to find another wing bar spar but you know
we got in liars the guys up there are looking for a wing for us but this you
know that breaks I mean you’re done I mean you’re flying on one wing airplane
yeah that’s it and so you know just to find that something like that that’s
gonna be something that you have to you know pull the wing apart this arc in all
the skin you know literally touch that spar so if let’s say some salt
you know we’re humid or it’s salty or this everyone came from Jacksonville
it’s got 12,000 hours in the airframe remember was my traffic airplane right
so flying through the salt air of Jacksonville you get some humid salt air
that sits between that spar in that skin mmm
you know borescope is never gonna see that like I said until you pull the skin
off yeah would you see something like that because honestly if you look behind
it if the actual what you can see it all looks decent yep yep and how long paulo
was the aircraft in jacksonville you think as long as I’ve known it yeah I
mean so 15 years maybe I could ask Joel maybe more I’m sure Joel always comment
on these videos when we bought it from yeah he could comment on this as well
but that’s I mean that’s serious serious stuff yeah it’s scary because you don’t
know what’s on the inside and that’s something that you know you really want
to start looking for and I mean now I mean this has changed my point of view
as far as what I’m looking for it’s gonna be something more of you know
we’re doing the 150 so now it’s like I’m gonna go back and start pulling some
things off the skins off to see make sure everything is good but the 150 yes
because it came from Jacksonville yes so yes there we go planes there we go let’s
stick with the corrosion theme here again still look at the wing the fuel
tank is in in this video again thank you to Myers for
sending us all these videos we’ve been so busy traveling have had a chance to
send Russ and John and the production team up there but again now this is
probably this is not as taken apart as it previously was here we’re kind of
coming down and now look at this corrosion here what is that and what’s
happening there some of that surface corrosion so that’s easy to clean up
just got to clean it up but it’s not really that bad so those that’s really
easy cleanup but then again it’s ah I was talking about earlier you’re looking
through the inspection panels and if you see most of it most of it it looks like
oh this so it looks really good it’s not that bad but then you look at this you
know in the here’s again that’s the leading edge yeah you know and you’re
looking at and it’s not every every Bay and so there’s only interesting only
certain inspection holes that you can look through and so you’re trying to
look as much as you possibly can into each Bay to make sure there’s no
corrosion like this yes the discovery of the corrosion came from where they were
taking the skin apart from sports and everything we’ve never seen it no said
I’m sure was corrosion we take care of that manual yes yeah seeing the real
stuff and you in time a discovery look at this clip here to this one this one
blew me away what what is sitting down there that’s part of your spark yeah
that’s the spark coming apart in this you know once you take those rivets out
your stories you know everything it’s all falling it’s all falling apart
coming down and it’s it is it’s amazing that how much you don’t really
understand how much the corrosion that’s in there that that was actually quite a
bit yeah yeah so that’s just from pop Miska just on that spot where the skin
and the spar meet and yet not something you could see from an inspection they
popped those rivets in all that corrosion fell this the we’re getting a
whole new wing now originally they’re talking I think last video we said we
don’t need a whole new wing yep upon further discovery for their inspection
and it’s been going through these inspections for a month now
yeah and they just now found this yeah so if you got a shop that has the whole
airplane apart yeah and they just bun in it now just find it now later
yeah we’re going to explain every day it tells you how well hidden this really
was yes yet how well hidden was a catastrophic failure like that so let’s
let’s put the corrosion to rest for a second we’ll share
cool stuff that is happening with the plane because our 1972 airplane is gonna
be a 2020 airplane yeah by the time we’re done with it exactly like fresh
out of Wichita here brand brand spankin new yeah just about what I imagine is
people watching this video right now go on my airplane came from Florida my
airplane came from Virginia Beach wrote you know like what what should they be
looking at now we’re unique we are literally lived in Jacksonville very
long time 12,000 our airframes a higher frame time but what could an aircraft
owner that’s kind of concerned there coastal or the plane came from the coast
well what should they be doing here well well me personally what I’m gonna end up
purchasing is a borescope and then I’m gonna look in there a little bit harder
longer that I have previous previously done one of the things that you’ve got
it we got to understand is that we want to catch everything but you’re not gonna
catch everything Wow you definitely want to make sure that you you know you’re
trying to and you know this is something that some but like I said there’s a lot
of that surface corrosion but the sparks are just one of those things that you
can see it but you know there’s certain like I said there’s so many certain
places you that you’re gonna look and you’re trying to get in as far as you
can in your mirrors only going so far and so it’s like okay this looks good
because you know the previous video we had saw that you know most of it looked
really really good I mean you can’t really tell but you know just is one of
those things that like I said borescope spend more time
you know I’ve even and you know yourself you know I had the week caps off and did
you know and I’m looking down through there and hey everything look good to me
yeah but you know it’s just one of those things that you know this is a blessing
in disguise that you know that we actually you know this happened we were
we’re not happy about the aircraft being damaged but this is something that hey
this came out of the layout and we’re actually at the point now we’re redoing
the susta 150 as well and astronauts the same thing yeah also came from
Jacksonville hey we’re gonna paint it anyways let’s pull some of the skin
against that spar we’re gonna re rivet it everything else let’s just take a
peek yep and see what we’re dealing with here to prevent so maybe when you put an
airplane down for paint which happens every you know 10 15 years or so it
might be a good idea to pull some that skin and just have somebody take a peek
but let’s talk positive okay that’s some cool stuff we’re doing
we’re moving to all carbon fiber components that be in the end caps and
the these are the elevator tips you can see here and then in the visit primer
gray I mean yeah I don’t shit that’s what looks like pretty cool rubber great
yep yep so I got that you can see at the the bottom of the rudder there as well
if you look up at of course Russ is always proud of his arrow arrow LEDs
light oh yeah thing else yeah a lot of hard work and a love into that you can
see at the top now that looks cool I’m going to leave it gray yeah I know I’m
gonna say I actually like that that looks really good those are mza colors
yeah like that looks really really sharp with that yeah we ended up re skinning
the the entire elevator as well so there was a patch done to the elevator so we
had to go ahead and kind of fix that so cleaned primed everything else off until
we have some images of what the elevator looked like previously right again you
say that’s all surface corrosion it likes I fell look kind of nasty but
again yeah they can clean it up nice but either way didn’t really matter we’re
getting right everything looks sharp and then I believe a picture that we may
have as well is that the there’s corrosion in there as well and but but
though this is another one where that’s just like really hard to you know find
in there because most elevators don’t have an inspection and one I think good
though I’m trying to think back laughs yeah like one and it’s all in the
Crozier’s always the bottom yeah alright so but the inspection panels up kind of
hot yeah so you’re like okay so you know this is one of those things that you
know what’s on the inside you just never know yeah and so like once again
blessing disguise I mean now we’re talking about corrosion on the wing
we’re talking about corrosion on the elevator you know it’s just it’s just
one of those things that you know you really want to look for but at the same
time understand that there’s gonna be some things gonna be missed because you
can’t help yeah you know but you know we’re glad we found it sure and this was
originally being reskin not because of the corrosion this were the hail damage
was yes well yeah it had a patch anyways we wanted to fix from a previous repair
but the hail damage is why I’m a reskin yeah and we just happened to find
surface corrosion inside then like you said could have been cleaned
yeah but how would you clean it up without taking skin off yep yeah and no
one really takes the skin off of an elevator no I’m not for an annual
inspection now think it’s turn it in turn it out and get it get it fly yes
and so just some some enlightenment you know to really really think about not
hoping we didn’t scare anybody or anything like that but we need to start
getting a little bit smarter and more thorough with things anytime you have an
opportunity to take that skin off for paint or anything like that it’s a good
time to take a look at that again like Russ said there’s nothing you could have
I know you want to buy a borescope but everything but a borescope wouldn’t have
saw that no no no and it would help but then you’re still back at the same point
of light because it’s again yes yes against it and so it’s you know you want
to be diligent and looking for these things but she stood there’s not gonna
find everything yeah I totally get it so listen I imagine you have a ton of
questions Russ and myself will be monitoring the questions on YouTube on
facebook on and 0a comm any questions you have we’re gonna keep you in the
loop on – dear Mike Zulu as well as 5/1 – Romeo with its restoration as well we
have more airplanes down we have flying but you know they’re beautiful you know
it’s all good Sun and fun is the goal to be showcasing all these great planes
again for you also listen enjoy the rest of your day and most importantly
remember that pilot is always learning it’s the best one you’ve ever done uh
I’m working on it guys I wrote the Private Pilot blueprint with
the intention of if I could do my flight training over what I wish someone would
have told me I want that book to be yours for free all I ask is that you
visit private pilot blueprint comm to get your free copy

 

80 Responses

  1. Ron Sites

    November 5, 2019 4:17 pm

    Are you going to take the skin off the other wing as well? Looks like it could be as corroded as the damaged wing.

    Reply
  2. Flyboybobio

    November 5, 2019 4:18 pm

    Not to be negative but an A/P that doesnโ€™t own a bore scope? Seems like a necessity for an A/P. Great eye opening video. Thanks for sharing Jason.

    Reply
  3. aviatortrevor

    November 5, 2019 4:23 pm

    The fact that there was so much corrosion in areas that can't be normally inspected makes me fear for all the 1960/70/80s fleet in my rental club…. which is in San Diego, near the ocean.

    Reply
  4. mike95826

    November 5, 2019 5:28 pm

    If you can't find the wing that you are looking for near you, you may want to contact www.faethaircraft.com here in Sacramento. They have a large inventory of parts. FYI: I have no personal or professional connection with them, just found them while doing an internet search a year or so ago.

    Reply
  5. Peter Schuster

    November 5, 2019 5:37 pm

    That's a bit scary! At what point would a plane be considered a total loss from an insurance perspective?

    Reply
  6. Ron Valiant

    November 5, 2019 5:43 pm

    How many east coast airplanes are about to lose a wing. There has to be a way to forsee this other than luck!

    Reply
  7. Ron Valiant

    November 5, 2019 5:48 pm

    They need to coat the interior of the fuselage and wings with anti-corrosion compound at the factory when they build them.

    Reply
  8. 1dgram

    November 5, 2019 5:50 pm

    I wonder if something like an ultrasound could detect the density differences that occur due to this type of corrosion

    Reply
  9. Steve Mullin

    November 5, 2019 6:34 pm

    Seeing this corrosion I'm wondering what material should planes be constructed from to prevent this….like composite or fiberglass or carbon fiber….you should talk about this at oshkosh next year Jason.

    Reply
  10. 60 Hertz

    November 5, 2019 6:47 pm

    https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/orlandospencer/s61c-app-student-pilot-and-cfi-relationship-platform?ref=clipboard-prelaunch

    Reply
  11. Av8tore71

    November 5, 2019 7:02 pm

    It's on that wing now the right wing has the same problem I can bet you!! I've bought a couple Mooney's that had intergranular corrosion that I missed when I did a pre buyers inspection from FL and I will NEVER buy an airplane from a coastal state again. Good luck to you because that whole airplane is probably corroded!!

    Reply
  12. Tim Sears

    November 5, 2019 7:20 pm

    Is there any AD's out on this type of corrosion on Cessna's? Would Non-destructive testing catch this type of corrosion? I was looking for the obvious green tint to Alodine coating, but it didn't look like it was coated with it. Were the wing components coated with this anti-corrosion compound?

    Reply
  13. Channing Burton

    November 5, 2019 7:25 pm

    Is it cheaper to just buy another airplane. That's going to be a hefty repair bill. Throw a couple of Anodes on here and there…yea that will work.

    Reply
  14. R J

    November 5, 2019 7:36 pm

    Dam, you had that thing repainted, upgraded all the avionics, interior and so on and now this? Blessing in disguise I guess especially carrying precious cargo.

    Reply
  15. vrendus522

    November 5, 2019 7:53 pm

    When they say do a comprehensive annual, I guess they mean it, but this all the time, doesn't cover. Fantastic A&P outfit and shows what one needs to see with the address to this condition, as well as an apparent creeping problem. Well done and I'm very impressed with their work. Wow! Thank you for the look inside.

    Reply
  16. Jon Funanich

    November 5, 2019 8:04 pm

    Wouldn't it be cheaper to buy a Cessna with a runout engine from Arizona or something and then exchange the engine and avionics from 23MZ?

    Reply
  17. amp7876

    November 5, 2019 8:41 pm

    It is easy to see that it bothers Russ immensely that he missed the corrosion during inspections. It is rare to find someone that takes that much pride in their work these days.

    Reply
  18. the geek

    November 5, 2019 8:45 pm

    Nearly every plane at my first flight school had this many hours on it, sitting in Stuart, FL. Glad I GTFO. New school the oldest plane is 5 years.

    Reply
  19. ranjrog

    November 5, 2019 8:48 pm

    You showed pictures of re-skinning the horizontal stabilizer and Iโ€™m curious if you saw any cracks in the center lightening hole? My mechanic found some in my 1975 M model C-172 and I had the doubler installed to fix that problem.

    Reply
  20. Benny Reyes

    November 5, 2019 8:59 pm

    Yikes. You guys are helping to sell new planes and kit planes and borescopes. Is this all covered by insurance?

    Reply
  21. Matt Wilde

    November 5, 2019 9:02 pm

    Thanks for sharing, but as a student pilot that relies on 70s aircraft, this is scary to say the least. At some point, donโ€™t you think that we arenโ€™t going to be able to fly 50 year old planes… Has Cessna ever commented on anything like this to anyoneโ€™s knowledge?

    Reply
  22. Romaine Perkins

    November 5, 2019 9:11 pm

    Just like most I did pretty much all my training in 1980's aircraft, this is very scary. However an aircraft going down because a wing falls off is beyond rare so is this an abnormal event?

    Reply
  23. Spiro

    November 5, 2019 9:57 pm

    If newer aircraft were way more affordable, we wouldn't have to put up with potential disasters like this.

    Reply
  24. Wayne Sharaf

    November 5, 2019 11:44 pm

    If you do take the other wing off, and you should, consider zinc chromating the inside of both wings and using corrosion X or ACF 50. If you don't take the other wing off, I wouldn't bother with the Zinc or anticorrosion stuff, because it will be a waste of money when the other wing fails. I wonder what will go thru your mind when the plane plummets uncontrollably out of the sky…I wonder if it will be: " I should have checked that other wing!" By the way, you will find the same problem that you found with this wing. I'd bet my life on it.

    Reply
  25. Clarence Watson

    November 6, 2019 12:14 am

    This puts a new outlook on pre-buy inspection. I may sound stupid asking this: Is there a corrosion resistance coating, paint, etc that can be applied during annual to prevent or slow down the effects.

    Reply
  26. Mooselook7642

    November 6, 2019 12:49 am

    There is something fishy about what I have seen in the videos. Did you notice the corrosion pattern on one of those ribs? It is like it had been sitting in salt water, or something, up to a certain level for a period of time. There is a definitive line about half way up where the corrosive substance did not touch. Did this wing come off of a once partially submerged aircraft? Check serial numbers if there are any.

    Reply
  27. Johnathan Hubbard

    November 6, 2019 1:57 am

    When the paint and everything is all said and done, there will have to be a new weight and balance done, correct? If yes, that would be a cool video to see. How that whole process takes place. I would like to even see the painting and maybe even some clips of them reskining the wing. Sure there are plenty of pilot out here think of restoring a Cessna to its glory, but there really aren't any videos that show the process, or even talk about the cost. Love all of you over at the Mzero Nation. keep up the good work. Sure makes a chair pilot like myself keep the dream alive. Thank you all…

    P.S. Jason, Russ is getting better at the "Goooood Pilot is always learning"…LOL

    Reply
  28. John W

    November 6, 2019 2:10 am

    Embry Riddle lost an instructor and student some years back when one of the wings came off at the root due to corrosion. I'm surprised inspection requirements don't call for, maybe every five years or something, removing some skins as well as borescope? Scarry stuff and thank you for sharing.

    Reply
  29. Jim Biller

    November 6, 2019 3:50 am

    It seems like a lot of man-hours. IS there a point that an owner would be advised to total out the aircraft and buy another one? Is 23MZ close to that point?

    Reply
  30. Mike McCarron

    November 6, 2019 3:52 am

    When you had the plane painted with theses new colors, I take it none of this was checked at that time?

    Reply
  31. Living Light Shows

    November 6, 2019 7:23 am

    These repair updates are underscoring the reason why aircraft ownership is becoming cost prohibitive for recreational/private pilots. You can easily drop $15,000+ on what you thought was a standard annual when something like this is discovered.

    Reply
  32. flyman304

    November 6, 2019 7:25 am

    How much does the weight change from the carbon fiber modifications? Is there going to be a new weight and balance? I know its small modifications but 172s weight makes all the difference.

    Reply
  33. Gunga Dinn

    November 6, 2019 2:20 pm

    There are a couple of things that I see that are concerning to me as a 30 year A&P.
    There appears to be no primer used on the skins or faying surfaces. There also appears to be no sealant or primer used on the rivet installation.

    Using a borescope to perform addition inspections is going to open a can of worms. The deeper you dig, the more you're going to find. A borescope is a great tool, just be aware that you're going to find things that others have missed.

    When the other wing goes back together, provided a DER approves, I'd used a sealant on the faying surfaces to keep moisture out of the wing. The rivets would be wet installed with a chromate primer at a minimum but preferably a corrosion resistant sealant with a long pot life. Any gaps in the skins would be sealed so that salt air can't condense and start corroding the aluminum skins.

    Graphite composites and aluminum components are going to fall out of favor quickly unless you pay attention to isolating graphite from aluminum.

    Reply
  34. Gonzalo E Archila S

    November 6, 2019 2:25 pm

    No maintenance program take you to look under the skins your so lucky to find that before something else go on!!

    Reply
  35. abguy4

    November 6, 2019 2:29 pm

    Sorry guys. This aeroplane needs to be totaled-out. Any car body repair man knows that corrosion extends deeper than the visible pitting. The corrosion extends into the crystalline structure of the metal. So, you can not just grind down to fresh metal, and say 'that's gud, let er fly~!'. On car bodies the technician doing rust repair, will apply a wet phosphate to the metal after grinding-off the visible rust. This is done in order to penetrate into the metal internal structure and displace the oxides – but that does not repair the damage – it just stops it – so that it can be painted-over. The internal structure of the metal is already compromised. There are also "self-etching" primers which do the same – but only to a limited degree – you do not get the metal strength back~!. Some of those pieces in the video looked compromised beyond a safe factor. Consider consulting a Corrosion Engineer. Witchita should have some safety specs on this issue. Here's a primer. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corrosion_engineering

    Reply
  36. alessio272

    November 6, 2019 3:59 pm

    Makes me appreciate how much goes into the maintenance of these aircrafts. Iโ€™ll remember when Iโ€™m paying $180/ hour to rent an archer or a Cessna to remember these flights school and aircraft rentals need to charge these rates to cover incidentals.

    Reply
  37. Gary B Wood

    November 6, 2019 5:19 pm

    Great PSA video. Hey Russ. I was sure we were going to get another impression of Jason from you ๐Ÿ˜๐Ÿ˜๐Ÿ˜

    Reply
  38. Kevin Ohlson

    November 6, 2019 8:34 pm

    Great update. Blessings in disguise. Thank you for sharing. Great little topics to keep in mind when looking to purchase an aircraft: what is its history? Almost like a Carfax. If it has been mostly coastal, near salty air, different set of questions to ask.

    Reply
  39. Colton Tallman

    November 7, 2019 1:56 am

    These airplanes are just getting way too old to be honest they were never designed to last as long as they have so thatโ€™s probably part of the reason why thereโ€™s a lot of weird stuff coming up on these aircraft

    Reply
  40. Greg Harper

    November 7, 2019 12:16 pm

    Hey Jason ,Im a 27 years Flight Inspector for Learjet in Wichita , ex Air force Chew Chief, and former Lockheed employee structural sheet metal mechanic and Wow that's a lot of corrosion. I didn't see any sealer of brush coat in those wings, also not in that rudder. If I were you guys I would go back over the entire aircraft and treat everything with alodine and primer.. Also one thing that the commercial cargo aircraft do is , they spray the areas underneath everything with LPS3. I know that's an older Cessna, but that's inexcusable..Just my thoughts Jason..Glad you guys found the problem before an incident happened.. Keep flying and teaching….

    Reply
  41. Wayne Brown

    November 8, 2019 1:50 am

    Cessna built these aircraft to be phased out after 10 years service and they are built with 2024 T4 aluminum which is clad coated…basically they spray a thin coat of pure aluminum over the entire surface which is done to prevent corrosion at the plant the alloy is formed before Cessna even gets it, which when you consider they planned on the plane having a life span of 10 years max, spraying the inside with a chromate or other anti corrosion primer on anything but seaplanes wouldn't have been in their budget, plus unnecessary.

    Reply

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